Former Interior Minister Soylu says will quit politics after his deputyship ends

Can Bursalı / DUVAR

Following Şükrü Kaya, Süleyman Soylu is the second longest-serving interior minister, without interruption, in the history of Turkey. Taking office after the failed coup attempt in July 2016, he preserved his seat after the 2018 election and was one of the most controversial politicians.

His ministry ended with the 2023 election in which he was elected as an AKP deputy, but his name has continued to become the agenda. 

Soylu seems to prefer a more reclusive life nowadays. He, who spends most of his time in his father's house in the north of Istanbul, in one of the villages inhabited by those who migrated to Turkey during the population exchange with Greece after the War of Independence, said, “I have served my state and my nation. This is my last term (as deputy).” He added that he would not take part in politics unless he was “consulted”. Soylu said that the house located on the route of Kanal Istanbul is his favorite place in Istanbul and that he spends his time here at every opportunity, “Let them not say that he bought this place for income. We have been here since 1998.”

In the interview, Soylu answered Duvar's questions on many issues ranging from MHP leader Devlet Bahçeli's call for jailed PKK leader Abdullah Öcalan, to trustee appointments, from allegations that drug barons and international mafia members received citizenship from Turkey during his ministry, to rumors that he was left alone in politics, and from his goals in politics to Istanbul Mayor Ekrem İmamoğlu’s lawsuit.

Below is the translation of the interview with Soylu.

With the opening of the new legislative term, the steps taken by MHP leader Devlet Bahçeli raised the question: “Is a new peace process starting?” On the one hand, there is Bahçeli’s call to Abdullah Öcalan and on the other, there are the trustee mayor appointments... How do you define this period?

Turkey missed a period after the collapse of the Eastern Bloc. Whether it missed it or was made to miss it is a matter of debate. Political instability in the 1990s, PKK terrorism, the earthquake, and economic instability... However, when the Eastern Bloc collapsed, there were great advantages for us in the Turkic world. A new process had begun within the framework of the European Union. But the reasons I have just mentioned prevented us in the 1990s. In between, there was the February 28th postmodern coup attempt.

About today… Europe was growing, then started to shrink. Countries like China, Russia and India have shown growth rates far above the US. Europe is 95 percent in debt, and the US in 135 percent. True, China is also in debt. But its gross national product, which was 300 billion dollars, has reached 17 trillion dollars today. We have come to the end of the wave of globalization that once included Russia and China. Now Turkey sees this new era. Will Turkey miss this new era like in the 1990s or will it have another chance? Turkey is not the old Turkey. Turkey has prepared its infrastructure, roads, dams, airports, hospitals, universities, human resources, schools... At the same time, Turkey is resistant to many negative processes that surround it.

Turkey has a very experienced leader (Erdoğan). He has been governing Turkey for a quarter of a century. There is another experienced leader, Devlet Bahçeli, with whom he walks together in the People's Alliance. Now these two leaders are both leaders at the peak of their experience, who have the knowledge of what steps need to be taken accordingly. We need to ask one more question. Should we prepare for the future or manage the day? These two leaders can manage the day. They can manage the day without taking any risks. But is this enough for us? Is this what these leaders want? Do they want to rule the day or do they want to leave a stronger Turkey for future generations, free from the traumas of the past? I think both leaders preferred the latter.

The two leaders want to carry Turkey into the future free of terrorism. They wanted Turkey not to go through the processes it has been going through for 45 years. If a terrorist state is established in northern Syria, a 50-year period of chaos awaits the region. But can this be prevented? The US and the West support many things, but they cannot carry them out. Because this is our geography, we know this region. The Americans do not. Turkey did this: It has reduced the PKK's mountain cadre and the armed wing of terrorism to the point of elimination.

With Operation Claw Lock, Turkey has cleared the 30-35-40 kilometer line in some parts of the region within the borders of Northern Iraq. This means that Turkey's infrastructure is capable of doing this. Turkey has proven this and Turkey has proven something else. It has also proved to be the country that fights terrorism the best in the world. The Turkish Armed Forces have accomplished a great work today.

Now, we need to prepare both for how we can play a role in the new world order and for the Century of Turkey. Therefore, ‘terror-free Turkey’ is the most strategic step ahead. Since the 1980 coup d'état, those who carried out the coup and those who had it carried out gave Turkey two gift packages with red bows. PKK and FETÖ...

When did you make this analogy for the first time?

In the late 1990s, when I was serving as provincial chair (of a party).

Mehmet Ağar, the then leader of the party you belonged to, said, “Let them come and do politics on the lowlands (instead of fighting in the mountains).” You also campaigned for “Yes” in the 2010 referendum in which Fethullah Gülen said, “Those in their graves should vote”. Isn't there a contradiction here?

First of all, I did not leave my party and run a yes campaign. I had already left the leadership of the party. I was a member of the party during the process and according to the Constitution and according to the Law on Political Parties, it is possible to have different ideas within the party in a constitutional vote. In other words, people can put forward their ideas for a constitutional referendum even within the party. The party cannot take a decision that can bind everyone. Because the constitution is a social contract. It is not a social contract of parties. We voted 'Yes' to ensure that Turkey's democracy and Turkey's law can reach a much better point.

The talk of politics on the lowlands, which was said at the time, does not mean that the PKK members should come with their weapons, with the arguments of the terrorist organization, and do politics. It is natural to want a politics free of terrorism in a country, to say that there should be no politics linked to terrorism. Neither the constitutional referendum nor that discourse has anything to do with today.

There have been allegations that Devlet Bahçeli made his statement (regarding Öcalan) without President Erdoğan’s knowledge. What is your expectation at the end of this process?

Everyone understands very well what Mr. Devlet (Bahçeli) is saying, whether they agree or disagree. We have defeated terrorism within Turkey's borders and we are trying to neutralize terrorism outside our borders. Now there is a need for its total elimination. The steps taken are for this purpose...

Mr. President's agreement with this statement is also clear. What we should expect now is for the terrorist organization to dissolve itself in response to this proposal. It is as simple as that. If you want to do politics domestically, go ahead. Do a politics independent of the PKK. Bahçeli has drawn the framework. The interlocutor is not Qandil, not Edirne, not the West. It is İmralı (Island). This is an important thing. Do you know what this process means? It means that our President and Devlet Bahçeli are preparing Turkey for a great run in this period of time when we have reached the end of globalization. Look, I say it again, they could not have done this. They could have managed the country with daily politics. But they are producing a brand new process for the Turkey of the future. Whoever prevents this will pay the price. That is why I say that no one should try to compete with the nationalism and patriotism of our President and Mr. Devlet Bahçeli. These are futile efforts. Turkey has the opportunity to take the next half century and all the centuries to come with a completely different line. The terrorist organization did not obey the call. Turkey's path and method is already clear. No one will surrender here. But what is desired? Turkey's unity and solidarity are to take steps to realize this march of Turkey's century.

The trustee appointments also started with the new process. Why did the Supreme Election Council (YSK) approve their candidacies then?

The trustee issue is the most important principle of the 'terror-free Turkey' project. You ask if there is a contradiction, the most important principle of this is precisely to prevent terrorism from infecting our local governments. It is also a Turkey where the rules of law and democracy work. If the rules of law and democracy are not working, then there is a problem.

According to the YSK, a candidate who has been ruled against by a court of first instance is not prevented from running. Because maybe the court of appeal will overturn this decision. But after the verdict is upheld, the necessary action is taken. If they are banned politically, they cannot be a candidate anyway. The responsibility here lies with political parties. If political parties nominate someone who is named in a terror investigation or prosecution, intent is sought here. Until today, people who have been replaced by trustees have been deliberately nominated as candidates.

The state cannot remain indifferent to this, the law cannot remain indifferent to this. This is very clear. If you give way to this, you will face not a terror-free Turkey, but a Turkey ruled by terrorism. You cannot pave the way for the human resources to be obtained from there, the finance, support and morale to be obtained from there. You cannot pave the way for any country in the world.

The secret witness in the Ayhan Bora Kaplan investigation claimed that some members of the security forces pressured him to testify against you. In addition, during your time as a minister, some members of your main team were dismissed from their positions. You applied for your immunity to be lifted and returned your armored vehicles. These issues reportedly came up during your meeting with the President. What was the President's reaction?

I explained the reason for my request to lift my immunity very clearly in my petition. In politics and in the state, positions are discretionary. Whoever wants to work with whomever is at their discretion. I have nothing to say. I am a person who has used the same discretion. However, the friends I worked with served in the aftermath of July 15, during FETÖ, PKK, PYD, ISIS, DHKP-C pandemic, the biggest migration in history, floods, fires, and earthquakes. When I became the interior minister, only 9,000 of the 25,000 senior police officers were available. There were 600 police chiefs in Turkey. There was no one left in the middle ranks. A new police organization was created. A new gendarmerie organization was created. A coast guard organization was re-established. We made very important cleansing in the Civil Administration Organization. On the one hand, you are fighting against terrorism. On the other hand, you are reorganizing all your units.

God bless my friends. They have fulfilled their duty to this state. They have passed through the most difficult period of our history with a patriotic, national and very sacrificial understanding. And here I would like to express my gratitude especially to their families. I was a man who worked until the morning hours. I exhausted them all, and I am grateful to them all.

All the others are a matter for the judiciary. I want all the things written about me to be taken to the judiciary. It is our primary duty to fight against these slanders. And these are systematic. Who is doing it? Can I make a connection? They are the ones who are mobilizing to get some friends out of prison. It's as simple as that. Don't I understand this? Why did the US ban us twice? I didn't let a single Western diplomat into Southeastern Anatolia during the state of emergency after July 15. I'm saying this for the first time. I didn't let a single Western diplomat into Southeastern Anatolia because they were aiming to stir up trouble. I didn't let them in.

Did you do this de facto, was their travel subject to your permission?

I did it de facto. I told them they couldn't go and that was it. And it is clear how successful we were. I wish it was as easy as it is said to do these things in Turkey. You will take risks. There’s a response. Unfortunately, there is. We fight. We do not hesitate.

Do you have any resentment about the process you went through after leaving the ministry?

This is not the first time I am leaving a post. I left the district chairship, I experienced the same thing. I left the provincial chairship, I experienced the same thing. I left the party leadership, I experienced the same thing. I left the deputy chairship, I experienced the same thing. These are the normal states of politics. It should not be seen as a resentment.

Some criminals took photographs with you. Most recently, your photo of the suspect who organized an armed attack on a woman police officer in Istanbul was shared on social media. The subject of photographs about you comes up quite often. Do you ever wish you hadn't taken so many photos?

That boy took a photo with me when he was 13 years old. We are in politics, especially after cell phones became widespread, taking photos has become a part of the ordinary flow of life. I have been the Interior Minister among the public, because I come from politics. You may remember that Karlov was assassinated during my days as the minister. I rushed to the scene of Karlov's assassination. I went inside, the shooting was still going on. I am not a man who shies away from these things. I have never been shy in my life. Now, if you are in a situation of lawlessness, you will hesitate.

I had 2 million photos taken with the camera of the Interior Ministry alone. According to the estimates of our friends, I took photos with one-seventh of Turkey. I have also done my job in all these photos. So they cannot tell me this: 'Süleyman Soylu had his photo taken, he did not do any work.' There may be some among them who are involved in crime. Did taking a photo with me prevent their legal processes? Did it prevent what would happen to them? Of course, speculating on this means that politicians, especially politicians, are damaging themselves. They contribute to my afterlife. We should say God bless them.

The issue of granting citizenship to foreigners in exchange for various investments has increased during your ministry. Some leaders of international criminal organizations reportedly obtained Turkish passports through this method. Isn't there a weakness here, wasn't enough research done?

The allegation that drug lords were granted citizenship is a big slander. It is a big slander not only against me, but also against the state of the Republic of Turkey and all relevant institutions. This process started from the day Turkey decided to evaluate the granting of citizenship on the basis of investment, employment, real estate, and movable and cash values. According to our law, no one who is involved in crime and delinquency, or even whose case is under investigation and prosecution, can become a citizen. This is all manipulation. Even if they are involved in these crimes after obtaining citizenship, their citizenship can be taken away. No international criminal can be a citizen.

There are examples of this, there are operations...

Count how many there are. There can be no citizens with a red notice. You say there are examples. No criminal can be a citizen. No one with a red notice can be a citizen. No one who is under investigation and prosecution in Turkey can be a citizen. All intelligence organizations in Turkey investigate the applicants locally. 

In many of the news reports, residence permits and citizenship are deliberately confused. Perhaps their application was accepted and then a red notice was issued. As soon as they are in the system, their citizenship is canceled. Let me also say this. There was no warning in our system about those with a red notice. We have integrated this into our system. We did something else. We uploaded the photos of members of all international mafia groups to airports and border gates so that they can be identified if they try to enter with fake passports...

What did this policy bring to Turkey?

I think there were around 40,000 applications. This means an investment of about 15 billion dollars. Plus, there is also employment. This practice exists in many countries around the world. Turkey has also taken a step towards this. This was a state policy and it had to be implemented in this state policy. I am one of those who think that this state policy is correct.

You are currently the Chair of the Parliament’s Internal Affairs Commission and Istanbul MP. Do you have a new goal in your political life? What is your future plan?

Politics is not a goal. It is a way of serving our nation, our country, our values and humanity. Politics is such a path. I have worked closely with our president for 13 years. We have worked in very risky periods. I have experienced many things that a mortal can experience. Thank God, I have also experienced many honors. I think I have done my duty for my country, for my nation, for my state, for my party. And I have worked hard in a loyal way. I always say. God knows and sees. My guide has always been his knowing and seeing. Tayyip Erdoğan is my leader. I will complete my political life with this reality. There are claims of forming a party. We have a 3 term rule. I have been an MP for 4 terms. After completing my parliamentary term, if my experience is consulted, I will honorably contribute to our homeland, our cause, with my ideas and experience, provided that I am consulted. The day Tayyip Erdoğan leaves politics, I will also leave active politics. After that, there will be consultation, benefit from experience, and ideas. All of these are an honor for us. My attitude after my term as an MP is that I will fulfill my duty only if my party consults me on something.

I have to open a parenthesis here for Devlet Bahçeli. During my term in office, he supported me in every matter. I cannot forget his support for the rest of my life. Let me also say that I am one of those who want Tayyip Erdoğan to be president for one more term. Turkey needs this experience, this knowledge, and this wisdom in order to put the future Turkey on solid ground. Turkey needs time, it needs a process of 6-8 years. The People's Alliance must continue with this unity.

There is a case in which you are indirectly involved. A case that could result in a political ban on Istanbul Mayor Ekrem İmamoğlu. How do you view the political ban?

Tayyip Erdoğan became the Istanbul mayor. Tayyip Erdoğan did not become president because he became the Istanbul mayor. When Tayyip Erdoğan became the mayor, the nation appreciated him because he acted correctly and did the right things with the trust given to him by the nation. At the same time, Tayyip Erdoğan has an idea. He has an idea for the nation, for the country, for the state, for the world. He also has a service. That is why he became president.

There was a political ban process against Erdoğan and it was said that he could not even be a mukhtar...

That was also a speculation. After the February 28th process, it was a speculation developed outside the nature of politics. So it didn't work. Why is that? Tayyip Erdoğan has an idea, a worldview, and a sense of service. And this resonated with the society. Now, the nation considers you deserving of such an important post as the Istanbul mayor. There are many services to be done in Istanbul.

But on İmamoğlu’s lawsuit… I said that it was not right to complain about Turkey to Europe. I say this today as well. The date is November 4, 2019. There is a talk about the annulment of the (Istanbul mayoral) elections. That decision was not made by me, it was made by the Supreme Election Council. Thereupon, the council filed a criminal complaint. Look, here is a document for you, in June 2020, Ekrem İmamoğlu sends a petition to the court through his lawyer. He says that the Supreme Election Council and its members or any other specific person was not targeted (by his remarks). A political discourse that is not intended to insult and is not directed at a specific person does not contain the elements of any crime. Then, 30 months later, in his first defense at the hearing of the case, he says that he said this to Süleyman Soylu. That's all I have to say. I am not a party to the incident. I only expressed my objection to Turkey being complained about.

In 2004, at a point when the European Union negotiations were blocked, Tayyip Erdoğan said, 'Prepare the plane, we are going back.’ (Then-CHP leader) Deniz Baykal at that time said, 'We stand by the Prime Minister until the end. We will not make this situation a subject of political polemic'. This is a national stance.

Özgür Özel is also said to have an attitude that can be called 'different in the domestic, different in the abroad'. Do you draw a similarity with Deniz Baykal?

I see Özgür Özel as a parenthesis in CHP politics, a small parenthesis.

(English version by Alperen Şen)